Eddie B 7:08 Sat Oct 1
Pedro Obiang
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This fella needs to start every week. He was so much better than both Noble and Kouyate.
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
LeroysBoots
5:54 Mon Oct 10
Re: Pedro Obiang
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I think maybe we need a Chelsea or a Spurs game to get us going......too often we have expected to beat the poorer teams and we got zero back from putting zero effort in
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Lertie Button
11:49 Mon Oct 10
Re: Pedro Obiang
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With Payet and Lanzini in the side we need water carriers, players to do the hard work and keep things simple.
What we don't need is everyone trying to outpayet Payet.
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Baggins
10:51 Mon Oct 10
Re: Pedro Obiang
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I do have some sympathy for Bilic because the injuries have not helped, especially at the back.
But I do wonder if he knows what his best team is. He needs to decide on a team and give it a few games. The constant changing and switching isn't helping.
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Sir Alf
10:32 Mon Oct 10
Re: Pedro Obiang
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Agree Willtell, too slow to make changes in the extreme. Kouyate and Noble as a pair is not working. IMO Kouyate is and has been a problem for a long while as a team player. When he was getting on the end of things, notching goals and we were in good form, he was an obvious choice. Now he simply does nothing in games. Noble has been struggling but he is getting involved and as I see it can pass the ball albeit sideways.
Also agree that Obiang is not some outstanding performer but that us exactly what we want, someone prepared to keep it simple, pass accurately, close down the opposition and hold the defensive line and their position. All the best teams have players like that. Bilic seems to think the cavalier style last season can still just outplay the opposition. It cannot. We do not have the quality of technique or movement across the team to play like Man City or Spurs etc. We got out best performances playing on the counter last season. Does not mean sitting deep all game but does meanplaying as a compact unit. We are all over the show. Against Boro you could see we were sitting far deeper and getting behind the ball as a unit but in many ways Bilic over compensated and we had Noble, Obiang and Kouyate performing the same role and not enough mobility and creativity. It is not a silver bullet but Lanzini in for Kouyate needs to be tried as I think the balance of the team would be better and Lanzini will be prepared, unlike Kouyate, to get back and be the modern day midfielder who helps in defence.
I know what will happen though. Bilic will start at Palace with the same team as against Boro more or less. It will be like the BFS days where once we concede the game is over.
I saw that Fernandes was on the score sheet for the Swiss U21 again. Like to see a bit more of him. Really do not know if he is perhaps a better option than Noble and / or Kouyate in some games ? Bilic said he was purchased and ready for the first 11 but he seems to be this season's Antonio and just waits. Last season it was more understandable as we were winning games. This season he needs to try different combinations in midfield.
All this said, would be nice to have a striker or two that can hold it up and generally bother the opposition.
Expecting the worst against Palace Im afraid :-(
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Baggins
10:03 Mon Oct 10
Re: Pedro Obiang
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Obiang was one of our better players against 'Boro but I do think it says alot about our performances this season that people think he was "brilliant" or "outstanding". He wasn't.
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Willtell
9:57 Mon Oct 10
Re: Pedro Obiang
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Football is just like real life. When you think you've cracked it is the time to beware. That's the WH problem at the moment imo.
On Obiang, I've only seen one really good performance and that was Middlesbrough. I admit I mostly watch streams and have difficulty telling who is on the ball or making tackles sometime but, last year neither Kouyate or Noble could be dropped. Obiang sticking around and not moaning is good unlike Sakho's petulence.
If Obiang can keep that level of performance against better midfields than Middlesbrough's then great but Bilic is too slow to make changes imo. I've noticed that about him and to some extent it's a good thing but often it gets to be monotonous like the Antonio at RB business. Bilic has to realise that his job requires changes to be made right now and the continuous PR from the club about how good Obiang is shows that the directors agree about the need to change players...
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Private Dancer
9:22 Mon Oct 10
Re: Pedro Obiang
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tnb 11:03 Sun Oct 9
Agree with Griffin ref the 'stop the rot' cliche just because we got a point..Always hated that nonsense. Boro at home is a game we should be winning, regardless of being in bad form, weren't they also in bad form?? If we lose to Palace how then has that point stopped the rot? It hasn't.
Totally agree with your last para though, in years gone by you could look at certain home games and think banker 3 points, but you can no longer do that, there are no games now that you can tip your hat on, Swansea at home in April being a good example. This is why we could go down. Apart from last season we have always been shit away, it's in the clubs NDA, so drawing at home to the likes of promoted 'Boro are the kind of results that send you down.
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tnb
11:03 Sun Oct 9
Re: Pedro Obiang
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Stewie,
No. The Allardyce/ Curbs mentality is to continue that approach ad infintium. No progression, no ambition.
All the best managers in the world, ever, have built from the back first. When you're in a bad run, don't concede. Get some confidence back. Then move on from there. That's where the likes of BFS fall down. For example, he was what we needed to steady the ship after Grant. Doesn't mean I enjoyed it, but sometimes a bit of pragmatism is no bad thing. The rot set in when it became apparent (as it always should have been) that he had no plan beyond that.
Trying to just outscore the opposition every week is bound to fail. I for one would be happy with a few boring draws/ lucky wins right now, and then we judge Bilic on how he balances that with being more progressive. He showed he can do it with all the injuries around last Christmas and now is the time to do it again.
There are no easy games in this league any more. For years that was a cliche but it's not anymore with the kinds of players teams like Watford, Palace, Stoke etc are signing off the back of the new TV deal. To say we should be walking all over the likes of Middlesbrough is naive. 1-1 is better than 2-4 (twice) regardless of the perceived quality of the opposition.
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Sir Alf
5:31 Fri Oct 7
Re: Pedro Obiang
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Scraper 5:16 Fri Oct 7
Thx Scraper, just noticed the missing 'T' :-) Talking of which its time for a cuppa.
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stewie griffin
5:22 Fri Oct 7
Re: Pedro Obiang
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"When you are on a bad run you need to stop losing before you can think about winning."
I take your point, but I honestly couldn't disagree more. That's the Allardyce mentality. The Curbishley mentality.
The game against Middlesbrough was every bit as depressing as the defeats for me.
We set up to nullify one of the worst teams in the league - who were in horrendous form - rather than beat them, and had a bloke playing up front who was earmarked to play right back at the start of the season.
We also needed an absolute worldie to avoid defeat, so I'd argue against working to any degree.
It absolutely stank of relegation to me.
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Scraper
5:16 Fri Oct 7
Re: Pedro Obiang
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We have no player named Nordveit hth
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Sir Alf
4:50 Fri Oct 7
Re: Pedro Obiang
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Agree with last few posters that its important to build the defensive solidity first.
Btw and I am not sure if this will matter, Nordveit has only been played in his favoured position as a DM once or twice and indeed we beat Bournemouth in one of those games.
Another Bilic and many manager's nasty habit of not playing players in their natural and strongest positions. Nordveit made his name at Munchengladbach as a DM alongside the geezer now at L'Arse. Play round pegs in round holes Slav please !! :-)
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Russ of the BML
3:58 Fri Oct 7
Re: Pedro Obiang
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Bullet 11:47 Fri Oct 7
Agree with that. When you are on a bad run you need to stop losing before you can think about winning. Get the basics right and play a few fella's who defend the defence and do the donkey work and break up play. Then build from there.
Hopefully Boro was the start of the recovery.
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Bullet
11:47 Fri Oct 7
Re: Pedro Obiang
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The team is overbalanced towards attacking, we need more defenders and ball winners to win back possession.
Obiang is a good player, but needs a run in the team to gain confidence. I think he has been very patient and earned a chance. I am not impressed with Nordveilt so far, but he hasn't looked much different to Noble so far except he doesn't venture forward which is what we need.
I would bring in two defensive midfielders Obiang and Nordveilt to play instead of two attacking midfielders in Kouyate and Noble. We are in the relegation spots and we need to defend centrally where we have been cut open constantly and keep clean sheets to get out of it as a priority. We have enough attacking flair and none get back enough to help out and can't defend if they do.
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,
11:27 Fri Oct 7
Re: Pedro Obiang
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Kayoute has blown hot and cold during the time he has been with us. He'll come good again but don't expect consistency.
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franksfat&slow&wank
11:24 Fri Oct 7
Re: Pedro Obiang
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yeah ron I remember that
seems Kayoute just cannot sustain any consistency
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i-Ron
11:19 Fri Oct 7
Re: Pedro Obiang
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It was only about 5-6 weeks ago there was a thread where people said Kouyate was a beast and better than Pogba...
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Nagel
11:09 Fri Oct 7
Re: Pedro Obiang
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Sir Alf 10:28 Fri Oct 7
Yeah, agree that Kouyate is very much 2nd choice out of the two. I've always felt that his popularity on here is similar to that of Diame. People just love to watch powerful runs with the ball in the centre of the park and they ignore the fact that it usually results in blind alleys, losing possession and being out of position.
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franksfat&slow&wank
11:03 Fri Oct 7
Re: Pedro Obiang
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strangely I read somewhere we'd conceded little when Nordveit was playing defensive midfield, is this true or was I on the mushrooms?
I don't rate him btw
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